Legislature(2011 - 2012)BARNES 124

03/21/2011 01:00 PM House RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HJR 21 OPPOSING FEDERAL WILD LAND DESIGNATION TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
*+ HB 189 GASLINE DEV. TEAM/CORP. MEMBERS/INFO TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 189(RES) Out of Committee
*+ HB 146 LAND TRANSFER FROM STATE AND ALASKA RR TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 89 EXTRACTION OF BEDLOAD MATERIAL TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 89(RES) Out of Committee
          HB 189-GASLINE DEV. TEAM/CORP. MEMBERS/INFO                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
1:05:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON announced that the  first order of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 189,  "An Act  relating to the  Alaska Gasline                                                               
Development Corporation  and creating an exception  to the public                                                               
records statute  for information  provided to the  Alaska Gasline                                                               
Development Corporation;  amending the  composition of  the Joint                                                               
In-State  Gasline   Development  Team;   and  providing   for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:05:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   MIKE   CHENAULT,   Alaska   State   Legislature,                                                               
characterized HB  189 as cleanup  language that  addresses issues                                                               
that arose after the passage of House Bill 369 in 2010.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:07:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TOM  WRIGHT, Staff,  Representative Mike  Chenault, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  explained that  it  became necessary  to make  some                                                               
changes  to   the  membership  of  the   Joint  In-State  Gasline                                                               
Development Team.    Although  John Binkley, chair of  the Alaska                                                               
Railroad  Corporation (ARRC),  was replaced  by Linda  Leary this                                                               
year, he remains  a member of the ARRC Board.   However, in order                                                               
to allow Mr. Binkley to continue  to work on the development team                                                               
as a representative of ARRC, HB  189 added the following bold and                                                               
underlined  language "chair  of  the board  of  directors of  the                                                               
Alaska  Railroad  Corporation  or  the chair's  designee".    The                                                           
legislation also  changed the makeup  of the development  team by                                                               
removing the  following language:   "the chief  executive officer                                                               
of  the Alaska  Natural Gas  Development Authority".   Therefore,                                                               
Harold Heinze  would be  removed from the  development team.   He                                                               
explained that  there were potential  conflicts of  interest with                                                               
regard  to Alaska  Natural  Gas  Development Authority's  (ANGDA)                                                               
bids on  the TransCanada  line.  The  other cleanup  requested by                                                               
the Alaska  Gasline Development Corporation (AGDC)  was in regard                                                               
to confidentiality.   He  reminded members  that the  language in                                                               
House Bill 369 referring to  confidentiality disappeared from the                                                               
legislation in  the Senate.   Therefore, in order to  ensure that                                                               
confidentiality is maintained when  information is passed between                                                               
AGDC   and  state   agencies  or   private  companies,   language                                                               
pertaining to confidentiality is necessary.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:10:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ inquired as to the status of ANGDA.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. WRIGHT answered that ANGDA  is still in existence and charged                                                               
with the  tasks set  forth in  House Bill 369.   Although  he was                                                               
unsure what exactly ANGDA is working  on, he presumed that it was                                                               
still  working on  a bullet  line  and some  work for  electrical                                                               
utilities.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT interjected  his understanding that ANGDA                                                               
is  still working  on the  deliverability of  propane in  Western                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:11:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON related  his understanding  that HB  189 doesn't                                                               
address the operation of ANGDA  as the legislation simply removes                                                               
the chief executive officer of ANGDA from the development team.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT answered that is correct.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:11:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ asked whether  ANGDA continues to pursue the                                                               
concept of an all-Alaska line.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT said  that  he couldn't  say exactly  on                                                               
what ANGDA  is working.   However, he recalled that  ANGDA placed                                                               
bids  for the  throughput in  the Alaska  Gasline Inducement  Act                                                               
(AGIA) and Denali processes.   He further recalled that ANGDA was                                                               
reviewing options with TransCanada as well.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:12:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER inquired  as to whether ANGDA  is taking a                                                               
position on HB 189.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT  said that  he hasn't had  a conversation                                                               
with Mr. Heinze on that point.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:13:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER   pointed  out   that  most   boards  and                                                               
commissions the legislature establishes  consist of an odd number                                                               
of members.   She asked whether the sponsor  would anticipate any                                                               
problems with having an even number of members.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT said he does  not believe there will be a                                                               
problem,  but he  offered that  Dan Fauske  with the  development                                                               
team might have a better idea.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:13:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON inquired as  to why the AGDC member that                                                               
is being lost isn't being replaced with someone else.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT related  that with  ANGDA placing  a bid                                                               
for  throughput for  the  other projects  there  is concern  that                                                               
there would  be the opportunity  for confidential  information to                                                               
not be confidential.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.  WILSON  stated   that  she  agreed  with  the                                                               
elimination of Mr.  Heinze from the development  team because she                                                               
agreed with  the problem it  presented.  However,  she reiterated                                                               
her question regarding  why he wasn't replaced  with someone else                                                               
in the state.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. WRIGHT offered that the project  is in such an advanced state                                                               
that  bringing  on  someone  new   would  hinder  the  operation,                                                               
especially since the report is due July 2011.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:15:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   SEATON  related   his  understanding   that  the   new                                                               
confidentiality language  on page  4, lines 16-18,  would protect                                                               
proprietary,  privileged, or  trade secret  information, although                                                               
the  language on  page 4,  lines  12-13, already  seems to  cover                                                               
that.      He  expressed   the   desire   to  ensure   that   the                                                               
confidentiality  language isn't  so broad  that it  includes more                                                               
than would  be required to  maintain proprietary,  privileged, or                                                               
trade   secret  information   that's  already   covered  in   the                                                               
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WRIGHT  recalled that  there was  discussion [with  regard to                                                               
the  confidentiality  language]  between  AGDC  and  the  drafter                                                               
regarding  how to  make the  language  conform.   He deferred  to                                                               
Legislative Legal Services representatives for further response.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON pointed out that  the committee packet includes a                                                               
memorandum dated  March 8, 2011, from  Legislative Legal Services                                                               
that addresses some of the aforementioned issues.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:18:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAN  FAUSKE,  CEO/Executive   Director,  Alaska  Housing  Finance                                                               
Corporation, President,  Alaska Gasline  Development Corporation,                                                               
explained that  [AGDC] is asking  firms and other  state agencies                                                               
for information,  and therefore wants  to feel confident  that it                                                               
won't be  compromised such  that under  a Freedom  of Information                                                               
Act (FOIA)  request the  information would  have to  be released.                                                               
There is no  desire to be in a position  in which the information                                                               
is "so tightly held"  that [AGDC] is in a box.   He recalled that                                                               
his first few weeks working at  AHFC were spent hammering out the                                                               
details of the ENSTAR Natural  Gas Company agreement.  Therefore,                                                               
he  said he  could  provide first-hand  knowledge  of entering  a                                                               
situation prior  to a company providing  proprietary information.                                                               
He opined that  it's much easier to start  with a confidentiality                                                               
agreement so that there aren't  arguments about what is and isn't                                                               
confidential.  Mr. Fauske informed  the committee that process is                                                               
at the stage during which  much of the [confidential] information                                                               
is going  to be  requested in  order to be  able to  finalize the                                                               
engineering, environmental, and air  quality data.  He emphasized                                                               
the  need to  avoid getting  derailed because  AGDC can't  obtain                                                               
information from  a company or agency  without a [confidentiality                                                               
agreement].                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:21:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON clarified  that he  didn't want  to prevent  the                                                               
aforementioned, but  he opined  that the  state must  keep itself                                                               
out of  a situation in  which legislators couldn't  obtain enough                                                               
information  because of  the confidentiality  in the  legislation                                                               
which was the case with AGIA.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FAUSKE said  that he  didn't want  to be  in a  situation in                                                               
which   AGDC    provides   the   legislature   a    report   with                                                               
recommendations based  on confidential information that  it can't                                                               
share with the legislators.  He  explained that AGDC will vet the                                                               
information and  the [new] confidentiality language  provides the                                                               
freedom  to  gather the  data  and  do  a complete  and  thorough                                                               
report.  Mr.  Fauske said that he didn't  envision any subsidiary                                                               
creation  that would  result in  the owners  of the  project, the                                                               
legislature, being privy  to the data.  Still, that's  not to say                                                               
that  there wouldn't  be information  in a  report that  would be                                                               
proprietary to [a company].                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:23:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEN VASSAR, Attorney at Law  (Of Counsel), Birch Horton Bittner &                                                               
Cherot, explained that in preparing  the report, AGDC is required                                                               
to gather information, which it  could perform via field research                                                               
and  hiring  the  necessary  staff   to  do  so.    However,  the                                                               
aforementioned would be costly and  time consuming.  Furthermore,                                                               
AGDC is aiming to prepare the  report in a fairly short timeframe                                                               
and  thus  the  most  efficient  way  in  which  to  achieve  the                                                               
aforementioned  is  to gather  information  from  those who  have                                                               
already gathered  it.  By and  large most of the  information has                                                               
been gathered by  private companies, which have  no obligation to                                                               
disclose any  of their information.   In fact,  private companies                                                               
are averse  to disclosing information  because they have  spent a                                                               
great  deal of  money to  gather the  information and  don't want                                                               
competitors  to  have  access  to  it,  whether  that  access  is                                                               
directly or via an agency  that's susceptible to a public records                                                               
information  request.   However, he  informed the  committee that                                                               
each  of the  confidentiality  agreements that  are planned  will                                                               
include a provision that expressly  provides that the information                                                               
is being  gathered and  planned to  be used  for the  purposes of                                                               
AGDC  in order  to  prepare  the report  and  present  it to  the                                                               
legislature.  Therefore, AGDC will  be free to manipulate and use                                                               
the information for the purposes of putting together the report.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:26:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VASSAR acknowledged  that the  existing  public records  act                                                               
includes  a  provision  for  proprietary  information  and  trade                                                               
secrets.   Although  that  provision is  helpful,  there isn't  a                                                               
bright white line  drawn between what is proprietary  and what is                                                               
trade secret in every instance.   Even if every document received                                                               
from a private company could  be reviewed, analyzed, and verified                                                               
as to whether  it's proprietary, trade secret, or  not and immune                                                               
from disclosure  requests, someone  else could reach  the opinion                                                               
that the  information isn't proprietary and  should be disclosed.                                                               
Such a situation would likely  result in a time-consuming process                                                               
of negotiating, litigating, and  possibly arbitrating that point.                                                               
The  aforementioned would  be  a  timing problem  for  AGDC.   By                                                               
allowing AGDC  to enter into  a confidentiality agreement  with a                                                               
private corporation  and including a provision  in that agreement                                                               
that  maintains the  status quo  of the  information provided  to                                                               
AGDC,  it  ensures that  the  private  company doesn't  risk  its                                                               
investment in the  information and makes it easier  to obtain the                                                               
information from the private company.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:28:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON clarified  that  he's trying  to understand  the                                                               
breadth of  the confidentiality  agreement.  He  then highlighted                                                               
the concern  in the  March 8th legal  opinion that  the exception                                                               
will  mislead the  entity  that everything  it  provides to  AGDC                                                               
would  remain  confidential.    Co-Chair  Seaton  said  that  the                                                               
legislation   doesn't  specify   what   can   be  determined   as                                                               
confidential   information   for   which    AGDC   can   sign   a                                                               
confidentiality agreement  with the  companies.  The  language of                                                               
the legislation seems to allow  AGDC to utilize a confidentiality                                                               
agreement  with any  entity  on any  information  to exclude  the                                                               
information from becoming public.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:30:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LISA   MORITZ  KIRSCH,   Attorney,  Legislative   Legal  Counsel,                                                               
Legislative  Legal  and  Research Services,  Legislative  Affairs                                                               
Agency  (LAA), explained  that  the paragraph  in  her March  8th                                                               
memorandum  that   relates  the  concern  about   misleading  the                                                               
corporation providing  the information is largely  an explanation                                                               
as to why she drafted this  provision in a different way than the                                                               
original request.   To some degree, the provision  adding that it                                                               
will  be an  exception  when it's  covered  by a  confidentiality                                                               
agreement does minimize that particular concern.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:31:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON opined  that the  aforementioned only  minimizes                                                               
the concern if  there are some sideboards  on the confidentiality                                                               
agreement that AGDC  signs with the parties.  If  AGDC is allowed                                                               
to utilize  a blanket confidentiality agreement  on all material,                                                               
he surmised  that the  concern would remain  or it  would exclude                                                               
all of the information.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KIRSCH related  her understanding  that  Co-Chair Seaton  is                                                               
saying that  the concern that  a confidentiality  agreement could                                                               
still  be overly  broad  remains.   However,  she didn't  believe                                                               
that's the intention  here.  That concern does  remain when there                                                               
is  language that  says:   "a confidentiality  agreement" without                                                               
any limitations.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  asked if Ms.  Kirsch has any  suggested language                                                               
that could be inserted to  restrict the confidentiality agreement                                                               
to the appropriate materials without being too broad.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIRSCH opined that would  be better answered by those looking                                                               
at the information  because they would be more  familiar with the                                                               
nature of the information they  desire to protect and the reasons                                                               
to do so.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:33:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  highlighted  the language  on page  4,                                                               
lines  16-18,  which   basically  says  that  there   must  be  a                                                               
confidentiality  agreement between  the information  provider and                                                               
AGDC.   However, she imagined that  AGDC will have to  place some                                                               
sideboards  in the  confidentiality agreement  so it  can provide                                                               
information to legislators to make decisions.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. FAUSKE, drawing  from his experience with  the ENSTAR Natural                                                               
Gas Company  agreement, explained that without  a confidentiality                                                               
agreement one would  request information from a  company and then                                                               
have to wait until the  company decides whether it's confidential                                                               
or not.   The aforementioned process  takes weeks.  The  goal, he                                                               
opined,  is to  expedite the  process  such that  an entity  that                                                               
wants to  do business with  [AGDC and  the state] has  faith that                                                               
the information it provides won't  be divulged without some prior                                                               
agreement or stipulation that it  won't be divulged without their                                                               
permission  because  the  information   being  requested  is  the                                                               
private company's information.   Mr. Fauske said  that AGDC isn't                                                               
going  to find  itself  in  a position  that  it doesn't  divulge                                                               
anything because  it's AGDC's responsibility  to divulge  as much                                                               
as possible since AGDC will  be providing a recommendation to the                                                               
legislature with regard to how to proceed.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:35:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON  posed a  scenario  in  which a  confidentiality                                                               
agreement  is  made  in  which no  information  provided  by  the                                                               
private company  is divulged and  that all  information exchanged                                                               
and  discussions are  held private  and  confidential, such  that                                                               
it's not  a public record  and not available to  the legislature.                                                               
He asked  if that's the  type of confidentiality  agreement being                                                               
considered in HB 189.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VASSAR answered,  "Partly."   The confidentiality  agreement                                                               
would  certainly specify  that  the data  being  provided by  the                                                               
company to AGDC  is confidential and won't be  disclosed by AGDC.                                                               
Another part of the confidentiality  agreement will be an express                                                               
recognition by the private company  that the reason for gathering                                                               
that data  together is  to prepare a  report for  the legislature                                                               
and the information from the private  company will be part of the                                                               
report.     Therefore,  the  private   company  would   give  the                                                               
information  to AGDC,  but AGDC  can't  bundle it  into a  3-ring                                                               
binder and give it to legislators  rather it can sort through the                                                               
information that's valuable  to the project.   Mr. Vassar pointed                                                               
out that each of the  companies have interest in various projects                                                               
and the details  of those projects may be different  from that of                                                               
AGDC's  project,  and  thus  some  of  the  information  will  be                                                               
irrelevant and some will be useful.   He highlighted that this is                                                               
a  situation in  which  AGDC can  obtain  the information  that's                                                               
already been  created and  not have to  recreate it;  the private                                                               
companies will  provide the information  with the  knowledge that                                                               
AGDC is  preparing a report  for its  project and the  report for                                                               
AGDC's project will be public.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:38:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON  inquired  as  to  whether  the  confidentiality                                                               
agreement  would  not  specify   with  which  companies  AGDC  is                                                               
dealing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. FAUSKE said he couldn't imagine that ever happening.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  clarified that he's trying  to determine whether                                                               
[the  confidentiality  agreement]  refers  to  the  trade  secret                                                               
information,  proprietary information,  or  all information  that                                                               
AGDC  receives and  that no  one knows  anything until  the final                                                               
report to the legislature.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. FAUSKE surmised  that Co-Chair Seaton is referring  to a sort                                                               
of  open season  situation in  which one  wouldn't be  allowed to                                                               
know who  placed a  bid.   He reiterated  that he  didn't believe                                                               
this would  be such  a situation  at the  juncture at  which this                                                               
report will  be on  July 1.   First, it won't  be an  open season                                                               
situation.  Second,  AGDC will have gleaned  from the information                                                               
gathered the ability to create  a report that will be distributed                                                               
to  the  legislature,  which  then  becomes  a  public  document.                                                               
Therefore, AGDC will negotiate with  the firms ahead of time with                                                               
regard  to  what  information  can   be  divulged  and  how  that                                                               
information is being used.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:39:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON asked if this  confidentiality agreement is being                                                               
placed in  statute not just for  this report but for  the project                                                               
as it goes forward.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. WRIGHT replied no.  He  reminded the committee that all House                                                               
Bill 369 did was establish  the guidelines and the joint In-State                                                               
Gasline Development  Team.   In order  to reach  the point  of an                                                               
open  season,  based  on  what is  reported  to  the  legislature                                                               
further legislation would be required.   The [open season] is the                                                               
situation in  which Co-Chair Seaton's  concerns could  arise, but                                                               
that's  not  contained  in  House  Bill  369  or  HB  189.    The                                                               
legislation, HB  189, before the  committee today  clarifies what                                                               
was passed  in House Bill 369.   In further response  to Co-Chair                                                               
Seaton, Mr. Wright clarified that paragraph  (13) on page 4 of HB
189 relates specifically  to AGDC.  When the  report is complete,                                                               
there  is  no knowledge  as  to  what  the legislature  will  do.                                                               
However, he  acknowledged that  AGDC does  have a  subsidiary and                                                               
the  chances  are good  that  it  will  participate in  the  next                                                               
process.  Still, that's for the legislature to determine.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:41:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether it  makes sense to place the                                                               
language of  paragraph (13) under  paragraph (12)(A) in  order to                                                               
clarify   that   proprietary,   privileged,  and   trade   secret                                                               
[information] is covered by a confidentiality agreement.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIRSCH responded that it  would be a possibility, although it                                                               
would  take  a little  re-drafting.    She recommended  that  the                                                               
committee would have to ask the  attorney for AGDC whether such a                                                               
change would work for the documents that they need to protect.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VASSAR surmised  that  the suggestion  is  for the  existing                                                               
paragraph (13) to become paragraph (12)(C).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER replied yes.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. VASSAR said he is completely comfortable with that.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:42:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON asked  whether that really changes  anything.  He                                                               
then  suggested  that the  discussion  is  really for  [paragraph                                                               
(12)(B)  to   become  paragraph  (12)(A)(1)]  and   the  existing                                                               
paragraph (13) to  become paragraph (12)(A)(2).  He  asked if the                                                               
aforementioned would be effective for AGDC.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. VASSAR replied yes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIRSCH inquired as to whether  the intent of the amendment is                                                               
that the confidentiality agreement  would only cover proprietary,                                                               
privileged, or trade secret information.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:44:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON said  he thought  that there  are two  different                                                               
questions, and  then asked if [Ms.  Kirsch's understanding] would                                                               
satisfy AGDC's needs.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VASSAR replied  no.    He reminded  the  committee that  the                                                               
language  in paragraph  (12)(A)  is existing  law, and  therefore                                                               
proprietary, privileged, and trade  secret information is already                                                               
protected.     Therefore,  adding  a  sub-subparagraph   to  that                                                               
subparagraph wouldn't add anything to what [AGDC] is doing.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:45:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON emphasized that  he's trying to understand what's                                                               
being [protected]  and added beyond proprietary,  privileged, and                                                               
trade secret information.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VASSAR  stated  that   AGDC  largely  anticipates  receiving                                                               
proprietary, privileged, and trade  secret information.  However,                                                               
AGDC  is trying  to  avoid  the necessity  of  making fine  point                                                               
distinctions  between   what  is  proprietary  or   trade  secret                                                               
information and  what is not.   These  are terms that  don't have                                                               
specific   meanings  when   considering   a   specific  item   of                                                               
information.    By  allowing  an  exemption  for  confidentiality                                                               
agreements  that AGDC  enters into,  AGDC wouldn't  have to  make                                                               
those distinctions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:46:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON questioned  whether AGDC could develop a                                                               
definition  for   "proprietary,  privileged,  and   trade  secret                                                               
information"  that  would fit  its  current  circumstances.   The                                                               
current language, she  opined, is "really wide."   Therefore, the                                                               
committee would like to narrow  the scope [of the confidentiality                                                               
agreement] while allowing AGDC to accomplish its goal.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. VASSAR asked then whether  the legislation would specify that                                                               
AGDC  would   define  these  terms   by  regulation  or   in  the                                                               
confidentiality agreement.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON highlighted that definitions  are often                                                               
placed in legislation so there's no doubt.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:48:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DICK said  he understands  the  need to  maintain                                                               
confidentiality  of [proprietary,  privileged,  and trade  secret                                                               
information].    However,  there   may  be  some  fairly  mundane                                                               
information for which  [a company] spent lots of  money to obtain                                                               
that the company would like to guard.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:49:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FAUSKE reminded the committee  that AGDC will be asking other                                                               
people  for their  information and  it's  difficult to  determine                                                               
what  AGDC considers  confidential  proprietary, privileged,  and                                                               
trade secret  information versus what  a company does.   When one                                                               
enters into  a confidentiality agreement, one  gives his/her word                                                               
that  without further  reference to  the company  the information                                                               
won't be divulged.  However, the  nature of the work AGDC will be                                                               
doing  will bring  the  information to  the  legislature via  the                                                               
report.    This language  attempts  to  expedite the  process  of                                                               
moving the  work forward as  it's due July  1.  He  expressed the                                                               
need  to avoid  ending  up in  a room  with  attorneys trying  to                                                               
define  the  terms  proprietary,  privileged,  and  trade  secret                                                               
information, which  is what  occurred in  the ENSTAR  Natural Gas                                                               
Company situation.   In such a situation every  little nuance has                                                               
to  be  protected  and  there   ends  up  being  a  20-some  page                                                               
agreement.   Again, he reminded  the committee that  AGDC doesn't                                                               
have the  information it  needs.   "I swear to  you I  won't give                                                               
your  information  away,  is  what  I'm trying  to  get  to,"  he                                                               
remarked.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:50:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON related her  belief that AGDC  could do                                                               
the aforementioned, even without this language in HB 189.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VASSAR replied  yes,  AGDC could  negotiate  a 20-some  page                                                               
agreement.   However, the amount  of time spent agreeing  on what                                                               
the parties agree  on is time that could've  been spent preparing                                                               
the report.  The point is  that time is valuable, particularly in                                                               
this  circumstance.    Furthermore,  when one  meets  with  these                                                               
companies, one meets with an "army"  and it takes lots of time to                                                               
negotiate   matters.     He  then   noted   his  agreement   with                                                               
Representative Dick's  earlier comments  regarding the  fact that                                                               
while   the  information   these  companies   hold  may   not  be                                                               
proprietary or  trade secret information,  they have spent  a lot                                                               
of money to  obtain the information and aren't  willing to [allow                                                               
it to  be public].   However, sometimes  they will create  a safe                                                               
room where  the companies  allow others  to view  the information                                                               
but not have the information.   The aforementioned is a difficult                                                               
way in which to work on a report.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:52:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON inquired  as  to whether  the  sponsor would  be                                                               
comfortable  having  this provision  sunset,  since  it seems  to                                                               
really address only this report.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:53:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MUNOZ asked  if it's the intention  to provide the                                                               
information  being protected  with the  confidentiality agreement                                                               
at  the  point   of  an  open  season,  in  the   report  to  the                                                               
legislature, or  does it remain confidential  after the reporting                                                               
period.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. VASSAR  replied no, adding  that the expectation is  that the                                                               
confidentiality  of   the  information   would  continue   to  be                                                               
protected.   However, Mr.  Vassar related that  he isn't  sure of                                                               
AGDC's role  after the report  is submitted and remarked  that it                                                               
will be up to the legislature  to determine what future role AGDC                                                               
has after  the report.   If  AGDC doesn't have  a role  after the                                                               
report, he assumed that it  would return the information to those                                                               
from whom it was obtained.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:56:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DICK opined that a  sunset would seem to solve the                                                               
whole problem.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  announced that he has  obtained information from                                                               
the sponsor that a sunset clause would be acceptable.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:56:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:56:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER   asked  if  there  is   any  history  of                                                               
disclosed  information that  was deemed  proprietary, privileged,                                                               
or trade  secret information by  one party  but was ordered  by a                                                               
court or other entity to be released.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. VASSAR  responded not to  his knowledge in Alaska.   However,                                                               
he reminded the committee that Alaska  doesn't have a lot of case                                                               
law history given  its youth.  Still, he  related his expectation                                                               
that for information subject to  a confidentiality agreement that                                                               
is proprietary  or trade secret,  the Alaska Supreme  Court would                                                               
honor and  protect it.   He related his understanding  that there                                                               
hasn't  been an  obligation  to disclose  by  the Alaska  Supreme                                                               
court  in  such a  situation.    The  question, he  reminded  the                                                               
committee,  being addressed  is what  information is  proprietary                                                               
and  trade secret  information.   If all  parties understood  and                                                               
agreed  that a  particular piece  of paper  contained proprietary                                                               
information, then he  didn't doubt that the  Alaska Supreme Court                                                               
would protect that.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:58:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER inquired  as to  the consequences  to the                                                               
state or agency for an  unauthorized disclosure under current law                                                               
versus the proposed legislation.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VASSAR  answered  that  the  consequences,  which  would  be                                                               
unpleasant, would  be the same  either way.  He  anticipated that                                                               
violation   [unauthorized   disclosure]   of   information   that                                                               
inherently has  value or has value  due to the time,  effort, and                                                               
funds put  forth by the  entity to gather that  information would                                                               
result in a lawsuit.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON  interjected that  there are  other consequences,                                                               
specifically to  the individual who released  the information, as                                                               
well.   In  response to  Representative Gardner,  Co-Chair Seaton                                                               
clarified that the aforementioned doesn't change [with HB 189].                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:01:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON informed everyone  that a conceptual amendment to                                                               
repeal paragraph (13)  on December 31, 2011 will  be offered upon                                                               
the  conclusion  of public  testimony.    He then  opened  public                                                               
testimony.   Upon determining  no one  wished to  testify, closed                                                               
public testimony.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:01:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SEATON  moved  that   the  committee  adopt  Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 1, as follows:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, lines 16-18;                                                                                                       
          Repeal paragraph (13) on December 31, 2011                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:02:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  expressed  concern  that  she  has  been                                                               
unable to  speak to  Mr. Heinze  or have  a statement  from ANGDA                                                               
regarding HB 189.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SEATON said that he believes  Mr. Heinze knew HB 189 was                                                               
going to come before the committee as it has been scheduled.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:03:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON moved to  report HB 189, as amended, out                                                               
of   committee   with    individual   recommendations   and   the                                                               
accompanying zero  fiscal note.   There being no  objection, CSHB
189(RES)  was   reported  from   the  House   Resources  Standing                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB0146A.PDF HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 146
HB0146B.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 146
HB146 Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 146
HB 146 Request for Hearing_HRES_.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 146
HB146-CCED-ARRC-02-25-11.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 146
HB 146 Chronolgy Final.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 146
Dec_17_RR_letter[1].pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
Corp_ARTA_2005_excerpt.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 189 Hearing Request.PDF HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 189
HB 189 Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 189
HB0189A.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 189
HB189-DOR-AHFC-03-18-11 AGDC.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 189
Legal Opinion-Confidentiality.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 369.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HB 369
AS01.10.070.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
AS38.34.030.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
AS38.34.050.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
AS40.25.110.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
AS40.25.120.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
AS40.25.220.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 21 Hearing Request.PDF HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 21 sectional.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 21 Fiscal Note.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR021A.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 21 Sponsor Statement.PDF HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
HJR 21 Powerpoint.pptx HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
land ownership.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
S.O. 3310 Congress bypass.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
S.O. 3310 Land use planning.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
S.O. 3310 parnell reax.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
S.O. 3310 release.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
S.O. 3310 Wilderness Inventory.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
S.O. 3310.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
Who owns AK Map.pdf HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM
Media Advisory on Oversight Hearing on Wild Lands Policy.PDF HRES 3/21/2011 1:00:00 PM